The most yummy OATMEAL

October 6, 2005Jenny Marie Hatch

The burrs on my first roller mill dulled after many years of almost daily use, and recently we purchased a second mill HERE!
The main reason to roll your own oats is simply for the freshness factor. You can purchase Whole Oat Groats from any health food store and then use the mill to roll the oats and cook them up fresh. The difference in taste and nutrition level is markedly improved when the grains are freshly ground.
To make our morning oats I prepare the water by putting about 6 cups of water in our cooking pot.

Then I add in one teaspoon of sea salt, three whole cloves, three whole cardamon pods, and a cinnamon stick. I throw the spices into the pot in threes so I can remember to fish them out before serving. Nobody like to chomp down on a cardamon pod. I bring this up to a hard boil and then add in a sprinkling of whole flax seeds.

After the water has hard boiled for about twenty mintues I add in the rolled oats. About two cups of whole oats will feed my family of seven. What you will notice is that with the oats freshly ground, they are more filling than if you just purchase oatmeal at the store. A small bowl of these oats fills everyone up.

Turn the heat down to a low simmer and stir the oats into the pot. Let them simmer on low for twenty minutes.

To watch my cooking VIDEO playlist click here!

You can tell the oatmeal is not finished cooking because the oats still look a little crunchy. At this point they have been simmering for about ten minutes. About ten more minutes of cooking in the pot and then this pot of porridge is ready for bowls. The oats will continue cooking in the bowls for another five minutes or so until they are cooled enough to eat with whatever topping your family likes best. Plain brown sugar is favorite at our house, but also milk, cream, butter, honey, and my favorite is agave.
This mill also works great to crack wheat, kamut, spelt, and barley, and it is also powerful enough to make whole grain flour, but takes much physical effort to do so.
Whole grain tip: If you are just introducing your family to whole grains, you can make this breakfast much more digestible by letting the oats soak overnight in some water. Then cook them up with a pot of spices/flax seeds that have been boiled in one cup of water. You can also add in a thumb size piece of peeled ginger to the spice pot to make the oats more digestible.
For those who are into raw eating, this whole meal can be served after soaking oats with spices and herbs over night and just eating it raw in the morning.

Jenny with her nephew Jonah right after his birth (and first baby massage!)

Jenny Hatch

Provident Living Q and A

October 5, 2005Jenny Marie Hatch

Last month I was interviewed by Susan Fierror-Baig on the topic of Provident Living
I thought it would be good to post this interview here on my own blog.
Please feel free to contact me if you are interested in doing an interview on this topic.
Jenny Hatch
1.Q Why is Family Self-Sufficiency a key part of America winning the War on Terror, and should we have some sort of terror attack, how will Provident Living help?
A If individuals and families will take care of themselves, the authorities can focus on the needs of those directly affected by the attack, whatever type that may be even if power, water, transportation, or communications are cut off.
2.Q What does it mean to be a Sovereign Family?
A The family that is Self-Governed.
Follow up question: And in what areas of Family life does this Self-Sufficiency manifest itself?
A In whatever area the family feels a need to focus. For us that included health care.
3.Q Where is a good place for the average family to start?
A Water storage, 72-hour kits, and a two-week supply of food. However, all areas of life could be improved and that includes:
Literacy and Education
Career Development
Financial and Resource Management
Home Production and Storage
Physical Health
Social-Emotional and Spiritual Development
Follow up question Where did your family start?
A We put in a supply of food, organized 72-hour kits, and bought some Kitchen Tools. I read dozens of survival books.
I then spent years becoming medically self-sufficient. I gradually stopped using my medications. We have raised our children without antibiotics and vaccinations, and they rarely go to the doctor and have never been to the dentist.
We try to live as if the medical profession did not exist. The most difficult thing I have ever done was to wean off of my Anti-depressants thirteen years ago. My husband also decided to go natural and stopped taking all of his over the counter meds. Now we use nutrition and herbal healing for most of what ails our family.
Later on, after I felt stronger, we added home childbirth to our list of Provident skills.
4.Q How have your husband and children participated in this effort to live Providently?
A My husband has been the voice of reason that kept us balanced as we prepared. It is easy in this day and time to take preparations too far, to live in fear and perhaps go into debt in order to prepare. I believe sometimes going into debt is justified as when an individual or family decides to go into debt for extra schooling, knowing this investment will pay off in a better income because of an increase in knowledge or skills. My husband kept us from taking too many extreme measures.
My children help every time we re-do our 72 hour kits, and they help us can and store the food as well as inventory it. They also love to eat the foods I prepare and they are my living testimonials that with good information and serious effort you can produce a healthy child without the help of any professionals.
5.Q When did you decide to live this Lifestyle?
A I started thinking about provident living during my teens. I was raised in a family that practiced many facets of this life style and it was a natural progression to implement it when I left home. As we have learned line upon line the skills necessary for living without the help of modern medicine, education, and government welfare a great feeling of confidence has been the end result of this effort.
6.Q Why do you take living the Provident Lifestyle so seriously?
A All my life I have studied the various scriptural prophecies from ancient and modern prophets. This knowledge coupled with my own dreams and promptings motivated me to start down this path.
In fact, I was reading the Bible one day in February of 1989, Matthew 24:19 to be exact. I had just given birth to my first baby and that month had celebrated my 21st birthday.
I was nursing her while I read this chapter. It is the chapter where Jesus is telling his disciples the signs of his second coming in the last days. Verse 19 quotes Jesus as saying “and woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days”. When I read that verse I just knew Jesus was talking about my generation of mothers and I also realized that I had to learn everything I could about birth and natural mothering.
Recent world events have just underscored the promptings to become self-sufficient and warning dreams I have had over the years.
7.Q What motivates you to keep preparing and adding skills?
A The thought of my children being truly hungry.
When I teach preparedness classes, I always show our years supply of food to those who attend. I tell them this food is for my family and then I challenge them to do the same for themselves and their children. Inevitably, some joker always says, “well, if anything happens I’ll just come to your house”. I always tell them, “No, you have been warned, this food is for my family”.
Follow up question – This brings up the question, If others were truly starving, would you share your food with them?
A Yes, we would share with anyone who was hungry, but I would struggle to share with fellow Mormons because they have been warned for sixty years of the necessity of having a year’s supply of food. I would still probably share with them though.
8.Q Why such an emphasis on preparation for nuclear war in your classes and on your web site?
A The reality of our world demands that we get the facts and make some prudent preparations for any type of WMD attack.
Follow up question How did you educate yourself on nuclear war survival skills?
A I read the book Nuclear War Survival Skills by Cresson Kearny three times and did all of the psychological preparations as well as the minimum pre-crisis preparations he recommends, like putting in a two week supply of potassium iodide tablets for my family. Recently we put together a shelter in our basement.
9.Q How can others learn about this lifestyle?
A My Web Site
I set up my web site with many provident living links. My site focuses on childbirth because as I studied the various survival books over the years, I felt that the facts shared about childbirth were poorly written by men who knew nothing about natural childbirth. The books would say things like, “When the mother starts pushing the baby out, help her to lie down on her back”.
The absolute worst position for a woman to give birth in is on her back. Cultural conditioning has taught mothers that this is the proper position to give birth, perhaps not knowing that this position was developed by doctors to make things easier for them. Yet when mothers have the freedom to birth in any position they want, most often they will be upright in a squat or on hands and knees.
Applying the medical: “drugs and surgery” model of childbirth to a survival situation could be deadly for the mother and baby because the many life saving backups for baby resuscitation and a blood supply to transfuse the mother may not be available in case of excess bleeding.
Doctors tend to be somewhat casual about cutting the mother with scissors and knives and using forceps, as well as pulling out the placenta after a hospital birth. All of these interventions can cause terrible blood loss in the mother.
Knowing a few practical principles about natural childbirth will really help.
For example; After the baby is born if the mother will latch the baby onto her breast this will help to contract the uterus and aid in the placenta detaching safely. A retained placenta can be a problem for the mother. In the hospital the doctors have Pitocin to help contract the uterus and help with bleeding, and they have a blood supply to transfuse the mother with in case if she hemorrhages.
Most doctors don’t know this, but immediate breastfeeding is a natural cure for post partum hemorrhage. If the mother is dehydrated and cold she will also have a difficult time releasing the placenta, and so it is wise to have blankets on hand to wrap the mother up with the baby and a warm drink available to help with re-hydration and warmth.
I have rarely seen these types of practical tips and information in the survival books I studied and I felt a need to share them in my own books and articles. Gregory White MD wrote a book titled Emergency Childbirth, which is an excellent resource as well.
I wrote Elijah Birth, a practical “How to” book, for the father who has a desire to assist his wife with a home delivery.
It is available on my web site as an E-Book. I also have links to a variety of sites, books, videos, and articles on the web that have been great helps to us as we have become educated about childbirth.
10.Q Who has been the greatest influence in your life in regards to Provident Living?
A My Mother. As I was growing up we studied the scriptures together and spent many hours discussing these issues. She also instilled in me a love of gardening and cooking with whole foods and has been a tremendous example of proactive living to not just me, but to everyone she has come in contact with.
11.Q What is the most important thing to you?
A Healthy babies.
12.Q How many children do you have?
A Five; Michelle, Allison, Jeffrey, Andrew, and Benjamin.
13.Q Why did you decide to give birth at home? Is this part of Provident Living?
A I gave birth in the hospital three times – one birth was a c-section. I wanted to assure myself that I could do it alone without any help from anyone. During a WMD attack hospital personnel and emergency workers may not be available to help with a birth as they will be caring for others, and having practiced at home, I knew my confidence would be much higher should that scenario play out. I also would not want to be in a hospital to give birth if it was filled with smallpox or anthrax patients.
14.Q Weren’t you afraid to give birth alone?
A At first we were both very frightened, but as the years went by and we mastered the knowledge and skills of home childbirth, our fear was replaced by a great faith in the miracle of natural unassisted birth.
Our first home birth did result in a transfer to the hospital right after my son was born because we could not get him to breath. I also hemorrhaged. This experience truly reinforced the need to become educated about all facets of birth, especially the hour right after the baby is born. We learned a lot from that experience.
15.Q How did you get your husband to allow you to birth at home?
A We have had hours of discussion on this topic over the years and it ultimately came down to personal choice. I was the one who had to give birth and he respected my rights of self-determination over my own body, and he supported me giving birth where I felt most comfortable. When our fifth baby was born at home safely and perfectly in 2002 it truly satisfied my decade long quest to master this art of childbirth. I learned that I could do it alone and did not have to live in fear of any type of terror attack while I was pregnant.
16.Q Do you live in a cabin out in the woods cut off from everyone?
A No, we live in the suburbs of Boulder Colorado.
17.Q Where were you raised?
A Detroit Michigan.
18.Q What are your politics?
A Conservative.
19.Q How can others get more information about Provident Living?
A Go Here and Here
20.Q What is your vision for the future?
A Strong healthy Families, Communities, and Nations. I have adopted the vision of Isaiah the Prophet and am working and living for this day in the world. He said:
“And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying. There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days”
Isaiah the Prophet
I want to testify that before this day of longevity and all babies living to an old age, we will continue to have chaos and distress with some societal instability and it is for this reason that we prepare and live providently.
21. Q If we have a prolonged disruption in services because of terror, what will be the greatest need?
A Purified Water.
22. Q If society had to go a week, month, or a year without normal goods and services, which commodity will be in highest demand?
A Breastmilk. Most families cannot afford to have more than a months supply of formula on hand. I predict that should we have a long-term disruption, mother=s milk will be the food in highest demand.
23. Q How can mothers prepare for breastfeeding?
A Get educated. Read the La Leche Leagues, The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding. Go to a series of League meetings. Practice now 100% breastfeeding with no supplementation with your current babies. It is not an easy thing to do and poses many challenges for parents. Nursing my babies 100% has been one of the most difficult skills I have ever mastered.
24. Q What about those families who don=t have the resources, or more importantly, don’t have the foresight to prepare?
A I have a challenge for everyone who is listening to me right now. I challenge you men: husbands, fathers, grandfathers, neighbors, etc. to put in the survival supplies to keep the women and babies you love safe, fed, and protected. Just do it. Most men think of guns and ammo when they start to prepare. But you will need water, food, and a way to keep your family warm.
If you think you may father a child sometime in the next 20 or 30 years during the war on terror, get a few good books or videos on natural childbirth and breastfeeding. Put in a supply of cloth diapers. Get a months supply of food and water. When you have that, get a six-month supply and then a year’s supply. Just do it.
Because food is typically the women’s domain, I have met men who would like to prepare who feel paralyzed to know where to start because their wives adamantly refuse to “let them” store the food and learn provident skills. Your wife will thank you when she has some supplies on hand to feed the children with, and some books to educate herself with. The Victorian age cast a dark pall over the woman of the west and robbed us of our birthright of traditional skills and female arts.
Most women even today know very little about natural mothering. Until she is able to face this reality and help you prepare, just go ahead and get the supplies and books.
I have observed over the years that it is nearly impossible for women in their childbearing years to even face the reality of these types of disruptions in services. The thought of having to give birth and care for a child without doctors, drugs, epidurals, baby formula, antibiotics, and vaccinations is absolutely unthinkable for most women.
But in a matter of hours our fragile society could easily regress 200 years. Don’t judge your wife, daughter, sister, grand-daughter, or the young female neighbor who laughs at you when you try to talk about these things. As a pregnant woman they simply may not have the capacity to face reality right now.
The only reason I was able to do it is because I was raised thinking about these things, and have had years of psychological preparation, always thinking, planning, imagining life without modern medicine, education, and commerce. Your loved one may not have the luxury of years of coming to terms with these things. She may not be able to even have a conversation with you about it, or may shut you up or change the subject if you try to talk about it.
This denial of reality is actually a divine mechanism to keep her in a place where she can nurture her children during pregnancy and lactation, because if reality is just too harsh, why try? Why eat well or exercise or even make plans for a child’s future if that future is just a nuclear holocaust?
Education about nuclear war is what will dispel this fear and help the mother to come to terms with the harsh realities of life during the war on terror. But this will take time, and we may not have time. So, it is the job, responsibility and duty of the men in our society to get educated, put in a few simple supplies, and be prepared to nourish and protect the ones you love.
I don’t mean to be sexist about this issue, but it is just something I have observed after teaching dozen’s of classes. Don’t get angry with these women, just put in the supplies that will help them and their babies. Older women have a much easier time facing the facts about the fragility of our world.
You who are listening to me today, stop trying to convince the young women around you that life could change in an instant, and instead, just put in some supplies to share with them when the time comes.
When life is cut down to the bare minimums, it is amazing how few supplies are truly necessary to sustain life. Water, food, and shelter are it. Babies need so little to thrive. They need to be kept clean, fed, warm, and dry.
Use your imagination to think about living in your home for a month with no outside water, electricity, or the ability to travel anywhere to buy anything. Make a list of the supplies that you will need to survive for that time. As you take the first steps of water storage and a little food storage, it is amazing how much easier it is to continue on thinking about the supplies and skills you will need to survive.
I challenge those of you who are listening to me right now, today, to begin your preparations. Don’t delay, don’t allow yourself to be deluded into thinking our world situation will change.
We are more at risk for a nuclear attack than at any time in our history.
This is not something to run from. We Americans need to face this reality head on and realize the responsibility we have to prepare.
We have been promised in the scriptures that if ye are prepared, ye shall not fear. I can honestly say that I have no fear about the future. We are happily living our life, and if terror comes, we will go on living and face whatever happens without paralyzing fear.
Jenny Hatch
Read the Introduction to this Blog

Vaccine Controversy

October 3, 2005Jenny Marie Hatch Leave a comment

Read the Introduction to this Blog
Early on in our marriage, my husband and I made the decision not to vaccinate our children. Our oldest received two rounds of shots before I read my first book and decided to delay any more vaccines. The more I have learned about vaccines, the more justified I have felt in this decision.
But the debate continues to rage, and fueled by this amazingly ignorant piece by Cathy Seipp at NRO, I have been involved in a little debate on the comments section to her blog. I thought I would share a little bit from the original piece as well as the various responses to my points here on my own blog.
Here is her piece that showed up at National Review Online (Which I read a couple times a week, and absolutely love – I think Victor Davis Hanson should run for president!)
And a couple quotes from the article:
“Dangerous Witchdoctoring
One mother and bad trends.
I love L.A., but every so often I come across something that makes me think maybe people here really are crazier than average.”
…”And yet even now, too many selfish and medically illiterate parents are sending children to school unimmunized against basic childhood diseases like measles and mumps.
They refuse to expose their children to the miniscule risks of vaccination, gambling that the herd immunity of other, vaccinated children will keep them safe. Most of the time it will: responsible families assume all the risks, while irresponsible ones benefit. But it’s a narrow margin of safety, and if enough children in a community are unvaccinated, herd immunity disappears and everyone is in more danger, because vaccinations aren’t 100-percent effective.”
Go Here
And from a blog post on Cathy’s World titled Precious bodily fluids
“Still, I was a little surprised a couple of days ago to see that Roger Schlafly (son of Phyllis) had noted, disapprovingly (about my column last week) that “National Review supports compulsory vaccination.” Wait, I thought, aren’t irrational fears about vaccines a lefty thing? Then I remembered the old hysteria about fluoridation. There was indeed a time and place when people talked about fluoridated water as a Communist plot without laughing. And I am indeed old enough to recall this personally.”
And my response to this paragraph…
Cathy,
You said at the end of your blog entry…
“Still, I was a little surprised a couple of days ago to see that Roger Schlafly (son of Phyllis) had noted, disapprovingly (about my column last week) that “National Review supports compulsory vaccination.” Wait, I thought, aren’t irrational fears about vaccines a lefty thing?
Then I remembered the old hysteria about fluoridation. There was indeed a time and place when people talked about fluoridated water as a Communist plot without laughing. And I am indeed old enough to recall this personally.”
I was not surprised that Phyllis’s son made some negative comments about your piece. Calling parents fears about vaccines irrational completely dismisses the facts of the matter.
I have been following the story for sixteen years, and after reading Robert Mendelsohns How to raise a healthy child in spite of your doctor and a couple other books and articles, we made the decision not to vaccinate.
I knew we had rounded the corner on this whole debate when Phyllis made the decision to take on big pharma in this September 5th Eagle Forum Column from 2001. Since then she has been a consistent voice on exposing the lies, distortions, and conspiracies of the vaccine industry.
Rep. Dan Burton, not exactly a leftist, has also been a voice in the debate. If you will just google “Dan Burton Vaccine” you can find many of his public statements and other information, like how the vaccine industry has attempted to shut him up.
Here are some of his own words
“We have learned that a majority of parents whose children have late-onset or acquired autism believe it is vaccine-related. They deserve answers. We have also learned that the parents have been our best investigators in looking for both causes of autism and for treatments.
It has been parents who have formed non-profit organizations to raise research dollars to conduct the research that the CDC, the FDA, and the NIH have neglected to do. We have heard from many of these parents in the past, Elizabeth Birt, Rick Rollens, Shelley Reynolds, and Jeanna Smith, to name just a few. Each of these parents had healthy babies who became autistic after vaccination.
I might have been like many of the officials within the public health community – denying a connection – had I not witnessed this tragedy in my own family. I might not have believed the reports from parents like Scott and Laura Bono, Jeff Sell, Jeff and Shelly Segal, and Ginger Brown, who came to me with pictures, videos and medical records. I might have been like so many pediatricians who discounted the correlation between vaccination and the onset of fever, crying, and behavioral changes. Because both of my grandchildren suffered adverse reactions to vaccines, I could not ignore the parent’s plea for help. I could not ignore their evidence.
My only grandson became autistic right before my eyes – shortly after receiving his federally recommended and state-mandated vaccines. Without a full explanation of what was in the shots being given, my talkative, playful, outgoing healthy grandson Christian was subjected to very high levels of mercury through his vaccines. He also received the MMR vaccine. Within a few days he was showing signs of autism.”
It would be refreshing to see the conservative blogosphere take on this topic, and conduct healthy debates. Rather than personally attacking those of us who are attempting to be whistleblowers, why not take a couple hours to conduct the research??? And then honestly report what you have found?
Comparing us to Communist conspiracy cranks is simply an unfair stereotype.
Only parents who have lived with the horror of a normal healthy child gradually turning into a screaming, feverish, hysterical maniac who bites and kicks when touched understand the day to day nightmare that is being inflicted on babies and children. Please take your own head out of the sand, get the facts, and have the courage to write the truth.
Jenny Hatch
And in response to Cathy’s Blog entry on Witch doctor medicine I wrote:
“Parents are the ones who have to live the day to day life with their little ones, not doctors, social workers, or judgemental conservative writers.
SO, if parents decide that Medicine does not have a whole lot to offer to them and their kids, then I believe they should claim their rights and make the choices they believe are healthiest.
I completely support the parents in the article and the difficult choices made for and in behalf of their kids. From reading the comments to this blog entry, I’m wondering if some here would be for the licensing of children? You can only have a baby if you are; healthy enough, mentally well enough, etc etc…
NO ONE in society questions mothers who take anti-depressants during pregnancy to “prevent” post partum depression, or mothers who request lots of drugs during the birthing process, or mothers who choose to forego breastfeeding in order to bottle feed. All of these choices have terrible effects on childrens health and well being.
When are parents and their doctors going to be investigated and held up as neglectful in public for engaging in these damaging practices???
The parents in the Witchdoctor Medicine blog entry made the difficult choices and gave their little girl a gentle home birth, nurturing care at the breast, and a loving toddlerhood during her sojurn on the earth.
Who of you has the right to judge these choices?
Linking up natural mothering with witches is an old tactic of the Medical profession. “Don’t want those home birth midwives cutting into our business… cha ching cha ching $$$”
I’m saddened that an otherwise intelligent writer felt the need to stoop to that level in her labeling of alternative medicine.
I’m a conservative politically and love reading National Review, but conservatives overall need to get educated on what is happening to mothers and babies right now. It is open season on women in the delivery rooms – with the c-section rate skyrocketing, more vaccinations than we have diseases, and toxic, deadly drugs like Cytotec being administered for induction of labor….
Get educated Conservatives…or our future posterity will just be a bunch of autistic, brain damaged imbeciles who have no ability to think, provide for themselves, or grow up to lead healthy, happy lives. And we the people will foot the bill for the privledge of using all that medicine.
Jenny Hatch
Politically Conservative mother of five non-vaccinated, gently birthed, breastfed, and holistically nourished children.”
A response:
Considering the recent advances in diabetes, cancer and heart disease medicines by the big pharmaceutical companies and their researchers, I wish them all the friggin’ profits they can get!
They’ve saved many millions of lives (I know they’ve saved three – mine, my five-year-old daughter’s and my wife’s).
And my response back:
“I wish them all the friggin’ profits they can get!”
That’s cool, I have no problem with anyone CHOOSING to use medicine, and paying for the right.
But I also claim my right NOT to use medicine with my family, and get quite annoyed when people start spewing about Medical Neglect when they learn the details of my lifestyle.
Medical Neglect is an interesting term. Sort of a heads I win, tails you loose proposition. Use my medicine or I will get the courts to “force you to have a c-section, irradiate your childs cancer with chemo, or take psychiatric medicine” But if you refuse?? I’ll just take your child away, or force you to have a c-section, or force you to be under house arrest while you take your psyche meds.
It’s win, win and WIN again for Big Pharma, and the fact that we have conservatives who write about parents who choose not to partake as being “neglectful” is just too much for this freedom loving momma to take.
Jenny Hatch
Doug said:
Live and let live. As a believer in evolution, I see all of this pseudoscience as protecting one of the few remaining areas where evolution hasn’t been stymied in our otherwise advanced society. Let people believe what comforts them. It’s hard enough dealing with zealots that want to impose their ideas on the rest of the world.
And my response:
Doug,
I believe strongly in live and let live, but it is difficult to “live” when you have people like Cathy claiming that what you have chosen is “neglectful” and “selfish”.
As I said before, parents are the ones who have to “Live” with the long term results of medical or healthcare choices.
The parents in the article may have deep life long regrets about not choosing to have their daughter tested for HIV. Just as the parent who realizes after much gut wrenching research decides that the autism a child is afflicted with is in fact the result of immunizations. Or that the child is learning disabled because of the epidural, or that perhaps little junior will never reach his genetic potential because momma didn’t breastfeed.
All of us have to live with the life long consequences of choices made for and in behalf of our kids. I’m willing to live with my choices, because my research and years of painstaking searching have taught me what is needful to create a healthy baby and birth it at home gently. It galls me that some would flippantly diss that choice as neglect, when I could share dozens of research papers proving that typical medical care during pregnancy, birth and the early years does in fact cause a multitude of physical and emotional disease.
Jenny Hatch
His reponse:
Jenny,
There are some aspects of alternative medical practices that can actively and significantly harm others. That is where I draw the line and believe live and let live no longer applies. One is immunizations where it isn’t just the un-immunized child at issue. Once the percentage of the population exceeds a certain threshold, one gets a self expanding epidemic instead of a self extinguishing infected cluster. Some, seemingly innocuous practices can become quite malignant. A great deal of harm was done to many families by the “facilitated communication” autism fad a decade or so ago. But if people want to sleep under pyramids rather than get treated for cancer or HIV its fine with me. I fly ultralights and ride motorcycles, both highly risky and choose to take those known risks for the pleasures recieved.
doug
And another response:
Jenny Hatch,
It’s so ha ha amusing, reading your feelings about words like selfish and neglectful, when you have chosen to have FIVE kids. I will just assume that you alone are paying for all their college educations to become environmental geniuses and philanthropists to repair some of your own selfish actions.
Donna B.
Another commenter made the point:
Todd asks in interesting question: How many readers know Ms. Maggiore’s FULL story, or do they rely soley on the selective bits that Cathy presents?
I know Maggiore’s FULL story; I’ve argued against her and her supporters, seen her movie, and researched her background. I blogged the death of Eliza Jane last week, so please direct your dismissive arrogance my way, I can handle it.
Have you read Maggiore’s eulogy for EJ, where she claims the child had a death wish because she was uncomfortable in cold and dank Oregon woods? Are you aware that she refused the child competent medical treatment and that she still touts her “perfect health” on the Alive and Well website? Are you aware that Maggiore still claims that EJ never had an ear infection? Are you aware that the child was sick for three to five weeks before she was given antibiotics? Are you aware that breastfeeding increases the risk of HIV transmission by at least 15%, and by much more if it’s extended over a ridiculously long period of time?
Cathy Seipp may be a loathsome, parasitic, man-hating harpy with a bad peroxide job but she got the details of this story right (other than the ludicrous and immaterial observations on circumcision) as to whether Maggiore and her Age of Aquarius husband killed the child; they did.
Richard
And my response to Richard…
Richard,
So my question is “what is your point?” On your blog you claim…
1. Maggiore is a 49-year-old HIV positive woman who believes there’s no connection between HIV and AIDS who’s written a book and made a movie about her battle with the scientific establishment.
2. Maggiore practices New Age “alternatives” in every sphere of life: vegetarianism, Waldorf education, Attachment Parenting, prolonged breast-feeding, Naturopathy, “intuitive healing”, Chinese herbal medicine, non-vaccinating, childbirth after 45, etc.
3. Maggiore gave birth to two children after she was 40 and HIV+, contrary to medical advice.
4. She refused to allow them to take AZT, contrary to medical advice.
5. She breastfed them both (for several years), contrary to medical advice.
6. She refused to have them tested for HIV, contrary to medical advice.
7. Eliza Jane came down with symptoms of an ear infection in the middle of April, and wasn’t allowed to take antibiotics until mid-May.
8. Two days after taking token antibiotic amoxicillin the child was dead.
9. Maggiore says the child wanted to die.
Ok, so all of these are true! So what!! Do we in America have the freedom to welcome children into our homes or not? Do we have the right to refuse medical care or not? Do we as parents have the right to give birth, nourish, treat, and make decisions for and in behalf of our kids or not?
These are not easy questions, especially when a child is dead, but to say “if only, if only…and then point the finger of scorn at this family does not answer the fundamental question…do we as parents have the right to raise our children as we see fit, or do we as parents have to do everything according to whatever the current medical dogma is, even if our own research has proven to us that certain practices and substances will in fact cause harm???
I just read a little blurb on Newsmax about heart problems being linked to early first trimester usage of anti-depressants in pregnant women. So by your logic, if those women who follow doctors orders now give birth to children who will suffer from heart disease, perhaps even DIE from it, then it is the PARENTS who must be blamed even if they trusted the pharma companies, their doctors and Brooke Shields who has been spewing for months that anti-depressants are gods gift to the depressed??? What about the babies??? What about their little hearts? What about those of us who choose not to partake and choose to use nutrition and natural healing when our babes are ill.
You can’t have it both ways, either parents are going to have the freedom to make health care choices, and perhaps make mistakes and little ones suffer from the consequences, or we have all just given up our rights of self determination and have now entered into the medical police state, where no matter what, doctor is god, and everything he says goes.
I choose to claims my rights of self determination for myself AND for and in behalf of my kids until they are of age, and you can just take your self righteous – “The parents killed her” and shove it where the sun don’t shine.
Jenny
Joe said:
Jenny,
Nobody faults parents who made what science later discovers to be a mistake, or those who choose to forego the medical establishment’s recommendation if they are uncomfortable with it. But how can you claim it was reasonable to let your child’s infection go untreated? That antibiotics saves lives from infections has been proven many years ago.
What if a parent doesn’t believe cyanide causes death, and decides to inject some to her children? Is that one of those difficult choices you talked about, the ones we all face and have to live with for the rest of our lives?
Joe
And I replied:
Joe,
It is the arrogance of the medical profession and those, like Cathy, who buy into every “truth” they proclaim and propogate who fuel my passion to speak in defense of parents who reject much of modern medicine.
When you look at the numbers from the CDC, medicine kills people by the tens of thousands every year, in what is called iantrogenic, or doctor caused death. Yet nobody faults the families who buy into medicine when a child is killed by doctors. No, those families are completely blameless, because they were under “competent” medical care.
Well, I wonder about those families and their blind obedience to a system whose bottom line is $$$money money money$$$. And as mothers and babies die in the process, and couples like my husband and I say “no thanks” and do as much for ourselves and our kids as we think is prudently possible, I just have to marvel at the double think that defines our medical establishment.
Everyone knows that medical malpractice suits are fueling a huge percentage of medical costs, proceedures, and the current abysmal c-section rate. So if I, as a consumer, choose to not get into the middle of the current pissing match being waged between the doctors and lawyers, and choose to give birth in the sanctity of my own home so that I and my child do not experience the cascading effect of “cover your medical butt” birthing proceedures…then I am suspect because I give birth at home???
No doctor would give me permission to birth at home alone as I have done for my last two pregnancies, if only for the reason that I have had a previous c-section, and they don’t feel safe “allowing” VBAC moms to give birth at home.
Well, so what? If I choose to take the risk and responsibility of giving birth at home, then it is I who have to live with the long term results of those choices, not the doctor. Yet if a mother dies during a hospital birth
from a rupture or too many drugs, or the baby dies from lack of oxygen or too many drugs, well, that family is absolved of all responsibility.
It is tempting to throw darts of scorn and judgement at a visible family whose child is dead and who bucked the medical professions “current medical orthodoxy”. They are easy targets.
But what about those families whose children die or are permanently maimed by current medical orthodoxy?? Do they also deserve to feel self righteous judgement tossed in their general direction???
I choose to withold most judgement, and live and let live. But I am appalled by the current birth statistics of our medical profession, and just have to wonder where it is going to end…..a 75% c-section rate?? The highest infant mortality maternal morbidity rates in the world?
I figure most parents are doing the best darn job they can with whatever information they have at the time. If parents are guilty of crimes, then sure, prosecute them, and hold them accountable, but if not…and mistakes are made, or judgement is clouded, or IF THEY DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY THAN YOU WOULD DO THEM, and a child dies, well, let them grieve in peace, and you focus on your own health and your own family, and do what you think is best, and I will too, and hopefully the little ones won’t suffer too much in the process.
Jenny
And then, personal attacks…
“Jenny is deranged and should be on meds.”
leah
“Isn’t a child dying a legal thing, or am I getting them mixed up with dogs, where noone cares when or where?
Besides having some cute control issues Jenny, you’ve put me off milk for a week! GROSS!”
Donna B.
My response:
“Jenny is deranged and should be on meds.”
Personal attack?
“Generally, a personal attack is committed when a person substitutes abusive remarks for evidence when examining another person’s claims or comments.
It is considered a personal attack when a person starts referencing a supposed flaw or weakness in an individual’s personality, beliefs, lifestyle, convictions or principles, and use it as a debate tactic or as a means of avoiding discussion of the relevance or truthfulness of what the person said. It works on the reasoning that, by discrediting the source of an argument, e.g. the person making it, the argument itself can be weakened.”
Please stay on topic….
Jenny
Jenny; give it up. No one is buying your medieval view of neonatal/ pediatric medicine. There is literally no area of agreement of any kind. Therefore, hopefully, this thread will now die a natural death, something denied that poor little Eliza Jane.
leah
Leah,
Actually the Unassisted Childbirth movement is growing, and many parents are choosing not to vaccinate, and are using alternative healing and natural medicine.
I am not here to try to find agreement, I read Cathy’s piece off NRO the other day, realized she had a blog, and felt like chiming in.
I don’t care if you or anyone here buys into my world view. I came to my conclusions about birth, vaccines, breastfeeding, natural immunity, and healthy living after many years of research, study, and practice.
I don’t even claim that my way is the best way, I just claim that it is a valid alternative to the typical medical way of giving birth and raising children, and based on my own experience and observing the lives of families I know, this is a nice way to birth, nurture, heal, and raise a family.
Because I have so much in common with the family who makes up the story we are debating, I felt like chiming in and sharing my opinion. I thought that was the point of healthy debate. But as has been my experience in the medicine world, Conservatives behave like Liberals whenever anyone starts dissing their world view about doctors, medicine, anti-biotics, and vaccines. They just collectively put their hands over their ears and yell, “I can’t hear you”.
Heck we have TWO families who chimed in on this thread who have shared that they have autistic children. I know many families who have autistic children. One in particular has nine children, and all of the kids she vaccinated have autism to one degree or another and all of the younger ones who were not vaccinated are perfectly normal.
Now, maybe we are going to have a “new normal” where we start yelling that autism is good. I personally do not want the brains of my children damaged by poison, and so we have refused the vaccines, despite some of the most extreme pressure from family, friends, and doctors over the years.
But you know what? I have five children, and NONE of them are autistic. It is really the only study that means anything to me personally.
I find it intersting that rather than debate on the merits of the conversation you are just telling me to shut up, and others are personally attacking. And this is where it always ends when I start taking on these topics with fellow conservatives.
The medical positions are becoming increasingly indefensible. The medical statistics are the most damning parts of the whole conversation, and I’m just wondering when the American Public is going to get off its collective knees and stop worshipping at the alter of modern medicine?
Jenny
PS And if anyone has the guts to respond intelligently to anything I have written, please feel free to privately email me, visti my web site or blog, or join in on one of the many debates I have participated in on this topic at Free Republic. You have all mostly responded the same way that my fellow freepers have responded, like the close minded lemmings you are.”
As of today no one has responded to this challenge to debate the topics discussed on their merits. I like to think though that some who read will do a little more digging for the truth on the topic of Vaccines, and I was really pleased to receive three emails from readers who said that my writing style and points were well taken.
This little debate was just a chilling reminder to me on how far we have to go to expose the truth in regards to modern medicines monopoly on the minds and hearts of families. And the media disinformation campaign continues…
Please, as a natural mother, take the time to get educated before you allow someone to shoot your beautiful child up with a bunch of toxic chemicals.
Here is a link to a column on Natural Flu remedies that I wrote shortly after all five of my kids were down with a killer flu a couple years ago.
Go here

Jenny Hatch
Read the Introduction to this Blog

Busy Week

October 1, 2005Jenny Marie Hatch

Read the Introduction to this Blog
With a Freep last Saturday in Denver, my essential oils class on tuesday and General Conference this weekend, I have not had time to blog. I plan to go at it with a will on monday…
Jenny Hatch
PS
I’ve spent much of my internet time these past few days commenting on these two blog entries – Here and Here

Jenny Hatch Freeping the Moonbats in Denver 9-05 Link to Protest Warrior sign I was holding And Link to Protest Warrior sign I passed out to several members of the Media and Anti-War demonstrators who insisted I take their literature. I told them I would accept their literature if they would accept mine!
Read the Introduction to this Blog

Bradley Birth – My personal favorite Birthing Method!

September 22, 2005Jenny Marie Hatch

I was a certified Bradley Childbirth Educator for eight years, and I still have much love and affection for this method of “Husband Coached Childbirth”.
To find a Bradley Teacher in your locale please go here.
“Why take Bradley Classes?
Common Questions About The Bradley Method®
What is the difference between Bradley® and other types of childbirth classes.? The Bradley Method® is unique. Our classes stress the importance of Healthy Baby, Healthy Mother and Healthy Families. We attract families who are willing to take the responsibility needed for preparation and birth.
Bradley® Classes:
1. Teach a natural childbirth method that works – Natural childbirth is an important goal since most people want to give their babies every possible advantage. Without the side effects of drugs given during labor and birth. Bradley® classes teach families how to have natural births. The techniques are simple and effective. They are based on information about how the human body works during labor. Couples are taught how they can work with their bodies to reduce pain and make their labors more efficient. Of over 200,000 Bradley®-trained couples nationwide, over 86% of them have had spontaneous, unmedicated vaginal births. This is a method that works!
2. Provide each couple a 125 page Student Workbook containing the class curriculum, study guides, vocabulary, information on pregnancy, labor, birth, postpartum, coaches/doula training, ways of handling pain in labor, pre-birth bonding, staying healthy and low risk, nutrition, protein counter, general assignments, birth plans, relaxation exercises, labor rehearsals, Certificate of Congratulations, pictures and more. The workbook provides standardization and insures couples that their teacher is teaching according to today’s standard of Bradley® classes.
3. Provide excellent coach/doula training – Coaches face some special challenges in labor. They need special training as well as the mother. This is not a spectator sport. We begin by teaching the coach how to help her during pregnancy to be aware of things that help her be as healthy and low risk as possible. What to expect in the natural course of a birth, how to avoid unnecessary pain in labor, how to support and be an advocate for this mother. Coaches learn a series of relaxation techniques and effective labor and birth positions. The classes provide relaxation practice and labor rehearsals. They are designed to educate and motivate coaches and make them a valuable part of the birth experience.
4. Offer comprehensive education – When you take a class in the Bradley Method® you don’t need most “extra” classes that are commonly offered. Bradley® classes cover it all: nutrition, exercise, being more comfortable during pregnancy, the coaches role, introductory information about labor and birth, advanced techniques for labor and birth, complications, cesarean sections, postpartum care, breastfeeding (we do recommend La Leche League meetings) and caring for your new baby. Our classes cover a few topics that are rarely discussed in other classes like: how to reduce the need for an episiotomy and the likelihood of a tear, how to avoid needing a cesarean, how to make the best of it if a cesarean is necessary, and what the coach should do if the baby is accidentally born in the car.
5. Keep classes small enough for individual attention – Bradley® classes average 3-6 (or 6-8) couples per class. Classes are kept small so that your instructor can get to know you and present a class that meets your needs. Small classes are also important so that you will have the space to do plenty of practice in class. Studies have shown that the Hawthorne effect (the effect of personal attention) makes for better learning and successful results.
6. Use only certified instructors – Certified Bradley® instructors are trained professionals and experts in the field of childbirth education. Most of them have given birth naturally themselves or attended many unmedicated natural births. They have undergone an extensive training program with the American Academy of Husband-Coached Childbirth and are required to complete continuing education requirements and reaffiliate every year.
7. Teach 12 weeks of classes, because it works. Couples who take a 12 week series are more likely to give birth naturally.”
Perhaps the most important reason to take the Bradley Childbirth Class is because you will be instructed weekly in the priciples of the Brewer Diet for Pregnancy!
A WELL BALANCED PREGNANCY DIET CONSISTS OF:
Every day of the week you and your baby should have:
One quart (4 glasses) or more of milk. Any kind will do: whole milk, low fat, skim, buttermilk, or cheese, yogurt, ice cream, etc….
Two eggs, (hard boiled, in french toast, or added to other foods).
One or two servings of fish or seafood, liver, chicken, lean beef, lamb, pork, beans or any kind of cheese.
One or two good servings of fresh green leafy vegetables: mustard, collard, turnip greens, spinach, lettuce, or cabbage.
Two or three slices of whole wheat bread, cornmeal, cornbread, or tortillas.
A piece of citrus fruit or glass of juice of lemon, lime, orange, tomato, or grapefruit.
Three pats of butter.
Other fruits and vegetables.
Also include in your diet:
A serving of whole grain cereal such as oatmeal or granola.
A yellow or orange-colored fruit or vegetable five times a week.
Liver once a week. (if you like it)
Whole baked potato three times a week.
Plenty of fluids, water, juice etc.
Salt food to taste for a safe increase in blood volume.
You may substitute proteins if you wish, being sure your proteins are complete, and that you get approximately 100 grams per day, If you substitute, also be sure all the elements necessary for a well balanced diet are available every day.”
Go Here for a Protein Counter.
These dietary principles have helped me to build five children who were all over eight pounds at birth. The Brewer diet is the most sound diet for pregnant women and gives a wonderful foundation for breastfeeding after the baby is born. For more detailed information about the Brewer diet for Pregnancy, please purchase this book on line: Metabolic Toxemia of Late Pregnancy

Jenny Hatch