Mormon Messages: Families can be Together Forever

Here is a video of me singing the same song acapella from a few years back:

Jenny Hatch

Meridian Magazine: I don’t have a Testimony of The History of The Church

Davis Bitton: To read this whole article click HERE


Davis Bitton, who died in 2007, was a regular columnist on Meridian. He was president of the Mormon History Association, professor of history at the University of Utah, and official Assistant Church Historian in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. This article, somewhat shortened from what we published years ago, is a classic, a statement from a scholar who had looked deeply into Church history and, like so many others, cannot find anything that forces the conclusion “our enemies like to promote.”

I don’t have a testimony of the history of the church. That is why I can be a historian and also a believing Latter-day Saint. I will expand on this idea, but first let me address some related questions.

Do all well-informed historians become anti-Mormons?

The critics would have you believe that they are disinterested pursuers of the truth. There they were, minding their own business, going about their conscientious study of church history and—shock and dismay!—they came across this (whatever this is) that blew them away. As hurtful as it is for them, they can no longer believe in the church and, out of love for you, they now want to help you see the light of day.

Let’s get one thing clear. There is nothing in church history that leads inevitably to the conclusion that the church is false. There is nothing that requires the conclusion that Joseph Smith was a fraud. How can I say this with such confidence? For the simple reason that the Latter-day Saint historians who know the most about our church history have been and are faithful, committed members of the church. More precisely, there are faithful Latter-day Saint historians who know as much about this subject as any anti-Mormon or anyone who writes on the subject from an outside perspective. In fact, with few exceptions, they know much, much more. They have not been blown away. They have not gnashed their teeth and abandoned their faith. To repeat, they have found nothing that forces the extreme conclusion our enemies like to promote.

We need to reject the simpleminded, inaccurate picture that divides people into two classes. On the one hand, according to our enemies, are the sincere seekers of truth, full of goodness and charity. On the other hand, in the critics’ view, stand the ignorant Mormons. Even faithful Mormon scholars must be ignorant. Otherwise they are dishonest, playing their part in the conspiracy to deceive their people. This is the anti-Mormon view of the situation.

Can we see how ridiculous this picture is? It is a travesty on both sides. Many Latter-day Saints may not know their history in depth, but some of them know a good deal. As for Latter-day Saint scholars, as a group they compare favorably with any similar group of historians. It will not do to charge them with being dishonest. I happen to know most of them and have no hesitation in rejecting a smear of their character.

On the other hand, your typical anti-Mormon is no disinterested pursuer of the truth. If you are confronted with a “problem,” some kind of “non-faith-promoting” take on church history, the chances are that your willing helper can lay no claim to having done any significant research in Mormon history. Oblivious to the primary sources, unread in the journal literature, the critic has picked up the nugget from previous anti-Mormon writers and offers it as though it were a fresh discovery. Most of the time it is anything but new—it is a stock item in a litany of anti-Mormon claims that serves their purpose. It is a broken record.

Why does the charge accomplish anything? Because they don’t tell you how stale it is and of course will not let you know where to find the answers that have already been provided. To you the charge is new, or may be new. Falling into the trap, you think you have been deceived by the church—after all, here is something that appears to be seriously damaging to the restored gospel. Like peddlers of snake oil from time immemorial, the critic is willing to take full advantage of the situation.

How many historians who are deeply familiar with the sources on Mormon origins still find it possible to remain in the fold? We might start with names like Richard L. Bushman, James B. Allen, Glen M. Leonard, Richard Lloyd Anderson, Larry C. Porter, Milton V. Backman, Dean C. Jessee, and Ronald W. Walker, all of whom are thoroughly familiar with the issues and sources. Joining their ranks are younger historians like Steven Harper and Mark Ashurst-McGee. I offer just a sampling of faithful, knowledgeable historians.

I do not claim that all who study Mormon history are believing Latter-day Saints. That would be patently absurd. From the beginning, disbelieving historians have written accounts of the events. There have also been historians like Hubert Howe Bancroft who simply put the truth question on the shelf. No one denies that such approaches are possible. But there is also a long tradition of important work by Latter-day Saint scholars. In other words, those who know the most about Mormon history do not simply and inevitably join the ranks of disbelievers and Mormon-haters. It is quite possible, apparently, to know a great deal about Mormon history and still be a practicing, believing Latter-day Saint.

Why do I spend time insisting on this simple, obvious fact? Because our opponents want to leave the opposite impression. And because for many Latter-day Saints it is sufficient to know that faithful historians who are thoroughly familiar with the issues do not accept the interpretations and conclusions of the would-be destroyers of faith. I have not entered the argument over any of the specific issues. My point is simpler than that: Competent historians who have devoted many years of study to the issues have not felt compelled to abandon their faith in the restored gospel.

Are our expectations realistic?

May I reminisce just a little? The year was 1979. Leonard Arrington and I had just published a one-volume history of the church entitled The Mormon Experience: A History of the Latter-day Saints…

During that euphoric time, Leonard and I attended autograph parties, were interviewed, and gave quite a few talks. In an interview for Sunstone, we were asked to describe the relationship between faith and history. Here is Leonard Arrington’s response:

I have never felt any conflict between maintaining my faith and writing historical truth. If one sticks to historical truth that shouldn’t damage his faith in any way. The Lord doesn’t require us to believe anything that’s untrue. My long interest in Mormon history (I’ve been working in it for 33 years) has only served to build my testimony of the gospel and I find the same thing happening to other Latter-day Saint historians as well.

My own answer went like this:

What’s potentially damaging or challenging to faith depends entirely, I think, on one’s expectations, and not necessarily history. Any kind of experience can be shattering to faith if the expectation is such that one is not prepared for the experience. . . . A person can be converted to the Church in a distant part of the globe and have great pictures of Salt Lake City, the temple looming large in the center of the city….

…Only in the Doctrine and Covenants course is some historical background sometimes included, and even there the emphasis is on the spiritual and doctrinal content. Finally, at present (and for the past few years), priesthood and Relief Society classes devote a year of study to one of the presidents of the church. Some historical background is provided, but once again the emphasis is on the doctrinal teachings. The message that comes across to me loud and clear from lesson manuals and missionary lessons is simple. Our testimony is not in the history of the church.

So our eager anti-Mormon comes to us with his version of Mormon history. He has probably picked up his example from other anti-Mormons. He is pretty sure his Latter-day Saint neighbor will not know about it. His eyes are bright with anticipation. “Gotcha! What do you say to that! In view of that, how can you possibly be a Mormon.” If he doesn’t say these things, he implies them.

Here is where the faithful Latter-day Saint should take the wind out of the sails of the critic. Instead of collapsing with a wail of distress, the church member smiles and shrugs his or her shoulders and says things like this: “Hmm. I wonder if that’s true.” “That isn’t part of my religion. I have never heard it taught in any of the classes and have not read it in any of our manuals.” “You know what? That probably interests you a lot more than it does me.” “I haven’t heard what might be said on the other side. But what I do know is that I don’t have a testimony of the history of the church.”

Some of us might deplore the fading of church history from the curriculum. In the meantime, of course, you can still read on your own, individually or in study groups. To my knowledge, no one is forbidding such study.

Admittedly, knowledge of church history is not essential to our eternal salvation. But I do think it is natural and very satisfying to learn as much as we can about it. We study history, any history, as part of our human quest for self-understanding. As I read about the Latter-day Saints and their activities in the past as well as the present, I can be inspired, amused, bewildered, surprised, proud—and sometimes a little ashamed. More often than not, I am amazed at the perseverance, the tenacity, the determination to stay the course through good times and bad. Without even trying, I instinctively identify with the Saints. Imperfect as they were and are, the Latter-day Saints are my people. But my testimony is not in them, and I hope theirs is not in me.

Brigham Young once made a statement about Joseph Smith that our enemies smack their lips over. How they love to misuse it! Here is what Brother Brigham said:

I recollect a conversation I had with a priest who was an old friend of ours, before I was personally acquainted with the Prophet Joseph. I clipped every argument he advanced, until at last he came out and began to rail against “Joe Smith,” saying, “that he was a mean man, a liar, moneydigger, gambler, and a whore-master”; and he charged him with everything bad, that he could find language to utter. I said, hold on, brother Gillmore, here is the doctrine, here is the Bible, the Book of Mormon, and the revelations that have come through Joseph Smith the Prophet. I have never seen him, and do not know his private character. The doctrine he teaches is all I know about the matter, bring anything against that if you can. As to anything else I do not care. If he acts like a devil, he has brought forth a doctrine that will save us, if we will abide it. He may get drunk every day of his life, sleep with his neighbor’s wife every night, run horses and gamble, I do not care anything about that, for I never embrace any man in my faith. But the doctrine he has produced will save you and me, and the whole world; and if you can find fault with that, find it.11

What do you think Brother Brigham meant? Was he giving carte blanche to church members, saying that it didn’t matter how they behaved? Was he here giving his true feelings about Joseph Smith and actually describing him? If President Young’s meaning isn’t obvious, let me paraphrase it: The truth of the gospel and the divinity of Joseph Smith’s calling as prophet of the restoration do not depend on his behavior as a human being and do not require perfection in his life.

Did Brigham really think that Joseph was a moral reprobate? That is the way some brilliant anti-Mormons use this quotation. Ridiculous. Listen to this: “Who can justly say aught against Joseph Smith? I was as well acquainted with him, as any man. I do not believe that his father and mother knew him any better than I did. I do not think that a man lives on the earth that knew him any better than I did; and I am bold to say that, Jesus Christ excepted, no better man ever lived or does live upon this earth. I am his witness.”12 But—and this is an important truth—President Young did not want his testimony to center on Joseph Smith as a person.

Let’s consider a statement by President George Q. Cannon: “Do not, brethren, put your trust in man though he be a Bishop, an Apostle, or a President; if you do, they will fail you at some time or place; they will do wrong or seem to, and your support be gone; but if we lean on God, He never will fail us. When men and women depend on God alone and trust in Him alone, their faith will not be shaken if the highest in the Church should step aside. . . . Perhaps it is His own design that faults and weaknesses should appear in high places in order that His Saints may learn to trust in Him and not in any man or men.”13

I do not have a testimony of church history. In this declaration, I join Nephi, who said: “O Lord, I have trusted in thee, and I will trust in thee forever. I will not put my trust in the arm of flesh; for I know that cursed is he that putteth his trust in the arm of flesh” (2 Nephi 4:34).

Notes

Paper presented at the annual meeting of the Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research (FAIR), Sandy, Utah, 5 August 2004 (see http://www.fair-lds.org). Used by permission. Also published in Meridian Magazine Online (see http://www.ldsmag.com). Used by permission. Copyright 2004 Davis Bitton.

“An Interview with Leonard Arrington and Davis Bitton,” Sunstone, July-August 1979, 41.
“Think Not When You Gather to Zion,” Hymns (1948), no. 21.
See Isaiah Berlin, The Crooked Timber of Humanity: Chapters in the History of Ideas (London: Murray, 1990).
Leopold von Ranke, The History of the Popes, Their Church and State and Especially of Their Conflicts with Protestantism in the Sixteenth and Seventeenth Centuries, trans.

image

More on this topic from Jenny HERE

Thoughts on The Mormon Faith Crisis by Blogger Jenny Hatch

imageKimberly, one of my favorite writers at Feminist Mormon Housewives, waxed truly eloquent recently on the topic of the Mormon Faith Crisis, which was the focus of a New York Times religion piece last week.

Although I am the queen of Anti Feminism, I appreciate the thoughtful ideas that are so often shared at FMH.

Kimberly really nailed the topic with her post, located HERE.

Quote from her post:

“Shh. Mormons are not supposed to have faith transitions or a full blown faith crisis. Or, if we do, we should keep it to ourselves, suffer in silence, pretty much isolate ourselves so we don’t contaminate the other members who are doing this the right way.”

I was one of the first commenters:

Jenny Hatch says:
July 21, 2013 at 8:45 am

As I read this excellent post, I thought of a dear friend who is a convert to the church.

She was baptized and active for about a year, then when the pressure from fundamentalist christian friends to leave the church combined with the overwhelming realities of the many, many demands and changes in lifestyle that were being required as a new member overwhelmed her heart, she left our ward in sheer panic and told the leadership that if anyone in the form of missionaries, visiting or home teachers….anyone came to her home she was going to call the police.

She and I had become friends and were close neighbors during the ten years that she was hostile and in exile from the circle of saints. We spent time in each others homes and would bump into each other at the grocery store.

I was always teaching classes on essential oils, nutrition, and baking in my home and would invite her to these events.

She credits me with teaching her how to make bread and get into whole foods cooking and I credit her with the open heartedness to give the saints a second chance.

When she moved across town to another ward she felt better about giving the church a second chance, getting active, and trying once again to “be a mormon”.

Once in a while she would call me in a panic, not understanding certain terminology, expectations, or assumptions.

As an example, she did not want her home teacher to visit because her home business of caring for the disabled meant that she had a group of people living with her who had various physical and mental challenges. Sometimes these people were upset when strangers would show up and it would take her hours to calm them down.

She wanted to know if she would be disfellowshipped if she refused to let them in. I told her to call the bishop and tell her home teacher to “bug off”. I told her that in no way was she a bad mormon or her membership in question if she was not comfortable with any part or portion of our lifestyle and infrastructure, especially if it affected her in such an uncomfortable way.

She told me later that this conversation was the one that helped her relax and feel like she could “be an active mormon”. She had wanted to participate her whole life but truly believed she had to be perfect in order to get baptized. Then when she felt like she was “good enough” to be baptized she was so overwhelmed by how much MORE was expected of her that she was spooked and ran away for ten years.

She was also homeschooling when she was first baptized in our ward and heard some of the sisters at Relief Society gossping about a homeschooling family in our midst in a very insulting way. She wondered if her choice to homeschool would also qualify her for extreme judgement and derision.

I personally applaud anyone who is having a faith crisis, because it indeed is an opportunity to grow, deepen our faith, and move a step or even a jump closer to our Heavenly Father.

Sometimes a step back can help us refocus our view, ask really great questions, and then take yet another leap of faith.

Jenny Hatch

Someone responded to my post thusly:

Sharon says:
July 25, 2013 at 12:14 pm

Seriously. This sister could have been “home taught” at another location and received the blessing and support of that association. Telling him to “bug off” was not, in my opinion, the best counsel. It sounds more like YOUR issue with home teachers than hers. Had she even explained the situation to her home teachers and given them the chance to offer other options for visiting with her? Did she tell the Visiting Teachers to “bug off” as well?

And in reply I said:

Jenny Hatch says:
July 25, 2013 at 12:50 pm

Yes, she did not want anyone from the church disturbing her unique living situation with unplanned visits. When she called me that time, several members of the ward had shown up without calling ahead and she was getting frantic.

I don’t have any issues with home and visiting teaching and applaud my friend in her evolution from wanting to call the police and get restraining orders to the level of telling them to “bug off”.

It was her own sense of boundaries being violated by pushy members that made her want to bolt from the church in the first place.

Learning that she had some autonomy over how much she engaged with her ward family gave her the courage to be in the circle, albeit in a different way than you might think appropriate.

My guess is, over time, she will “get a testimony” of visiting and home teaching and fully enjoy all of the many blessings tied to those programs.

I just did not want her to believe that she was a “bad mormon” for not wanting to participate when taking her first baby steps back into activity.

Jenny

I really enjoyed the New York Times article hosted HERE.

And the Radio Show with the author of that piece as well as Kimberly and a few others hosted HERE.

Faith Crises over the ages have ushered into the world the finest Religions, Books, Plays, Music, Philosophy and we should never be afraid when an individual experiences the soul shatering fissure that precedes a quantum maturing leap to another spiritual plateau.

My own Faith Crises have brought about some of the most compelling and sacred interactions with My Heavenly Father, who is always willing and waiting to meet us in the valley of the shadow of doubt.

Jenny Hatch

The Paul and Jenny Hatch Family at the Nauvoo Temple 2003

The Paul and Jenny Hatch Family at the Nauvoo Temple 2003

Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, Jeffrey R Hollands most compelling sermon on The Faith Crisis:

Book of Mormon Project

Last night our family marked several of our favorite scriptures in the Book of Mormon.  I purchased thirty Spanish books and we highlighted a few of them.  We also plan to put our pictures and testimony in the front of each book and mail them to Jeff in Honduras to pass out to the people he is teaching.

Jenny Hatch

Book of mormon project

Quote from Jeff on his mission in Honduras and a chat with Mormon Bigots at Townhall…

Jeff BaptismQuote from Jeff

I love you all so much and want you to know I am doing good. We heard a quote from the AP’s that

¨If you don’t like some thing change it. If you cant change it, change your attitude. Don’t complain.¨

That and other things have been my focus this week. Happiness is a choice. It always has been and always will be. I am a lot happier than I have been. Have a great week and a great summer.

Love Jeffrey

After a few sketchy weeks when he first arrive in the country, Jeff seems to be adjusting to his new reality.

I was not prepared for how difficult hearing about his trials and tribulations were going to be for me.  But I have felt my Faith being tried a bit as he has shared various challenges with us.

I have a testimony of the Missionary Program of the church and I know that he is doing exactly what he is supposed to be doing with his life right now.

I just feel so helpless.  When he was little and struggling, I could usually fix whatever was bothering him, but now that he is older, it just feels like I am helpless to know what to do to help.

He broke out in this nasty rash as soon as he arrived…I just wanted to fly down there and fix it with all of my home remedies.Jeff Mission 1

But that is not my job right now. He was able to Baptise a little 8 year old boy and he expressed much joy in being able to help him on his path back to Heavenly Father.

DEFENDING THE FAITH ON THE WEB

This past week I chimed in on a post at Townhall about Mormons. It was a sarcastic and smarmy rehashing of so many falsehoods about the first Prophet of this church I belong to and love. Here is the link: My Apology to Mormon Readers 

I must have read the article soon after it was posted, because I made it onto page one of the conversation.  The comment section is now at over 3,000 comments and still going strong.  Obviously Mike Adams touched a nerve with his apology.  Here is the exchange I was involved in:

adodge Wrote:Jun 05, 2013 12:19 AM

By far the best apology I have ever read. In fact I think it’s now the Mormons turn to apologize. Go head we are waiting……
Flag as Offensive
JennyHatch Wrote:Jun 05, 2013 1:02 AM

 
Wow Mike really covered all his bases with this smackdown of my faith.Mormons apologize? For what?For claiming to love the Savior, and doing everything, I mean everything, in his name?For teaching our children to love and worship him in all they say and do?

For taking upon us his name, collectively as a church, and individually every time we partake of the Sacrament?

Mikes post was a literal fulfillment of Prophecy. When Heavenly Father and the Savior visited the boy prophet Joseph Smith they told him that his name would be proclaimed for good and evil all over the planet.

I challenge anyone reading this smarmy, smug, and self righteous post to dig a little deeper into my faith, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and find out for yourselves exactly what we teach, preach, and tesitfy of Jesus Christ.

Jenny Hatch
WWW.JennyHatch.com

Flag as Offensive
Charles41 Wrote:Jun 05, 2013 1:09 AM

No, for teaching another gospel worshiping another God, a damning heresy you should be concerned about.
Flag as Offensive
Charles41 Wrote:Jun 05, 2013 1:09 AM

No, for teaching another gospel worshiping another God, a damning heresy you should be concerned about.
Flag as Offensive
Libertary Wrote:Jun 05, 2013 1:20 AM

Apologize for claiming the name of Christ in falsehood. Mike brought up some excellent questions. Answer them.
Flag as Offensive
bgenda Wrote:Jun 05, 2013 1:22 AM

Nowhere in the comments have the historical facts been addressed, which was the issue Mike Adams addressed in his article.I’ve no doubt Mormons teach their children good things, but to focus on that as a rebuttal to this article misses the point of the article completely.
Flag as Offensive
JennyHatch Wrote:Jun 05, 2013 1:23 AM

 
Charles,I am the one who gets to decide what I will “worry” about. Not you.I appreciate your obvious concern for the welfare of my soul in the God I choose to worship. But if you would be so kind, we have religious freedom in this nation, and I am the one who decides the religion I will practice and teach to my children.

As for damning heresy, Mikes post justifies and promotes mormon bigotry and hate.

Jenny

Flag as Offensive
Libertary Wrote:Jun 05, 2013 1:28 AM

“As for damning heresy, Mikes post justifies and promotes mormon bigotry and hate.”Absolutely false. Mike’s post points out the obvious discrepancies between Mormonism and Christianity, as well as the obvious differences in quality between the Book of Mormon (changing, inconsistent) and the Bible (unchanging, impenetrably consistent).You are showing bigotry here by failing to recognize Mike’s good points and respond to them with your own. Instead of listening to Mike, you have put up a wall and resorted to ad hominem accusations of hate and bigotry where nothing of the sort exists… only reasoned disagreement.
Flag as Offensive
jkash1776 Wrote:Jun 05, 2013 1:53 AM

Before there was Joseph Smith, Our Jesus gave us a literal fulfillment of Prophecy of your misguided leader and all those misled by him.We cannot know Joseph Smith’s heart but even if it was only by archeological digs, we know that several of the battles involved weaponry made up of substances not existing at those times in those regions.Like Muhammed there appears to have been some abuse of power. That is not surprising.Only Christ had the heart of man and God to be able to possess the power that He did without ever being corrupted.

The triune God gives us love as his creed so had Mr. Adams been nasty, petty and calling for attack he’d have been wrong in this column.

As it is, the only reason he wrote this column is because YOUR loving, compassionate and rational people excoriated him so that he felt the need to reply.

He knew he didn’t need to apologize and yet our Christ tells us to forgive AND to apologize, even when not our fault.

God bless and good luck overcoming your smarmy smugness and self-righteousness

Flag as Offensive
jkash1776 Wrote:Jun 05, 2013 1:56 AM

but all false religions go back to personal attacks.
Christians, REAL Christians, have evidence and not just scripture. Countless miracles and countless atheists who have reasoned themselves into conversion makes it understandable why true believers and followers of Christianity can walk among people in the real world and be loving and normal and fun, while praying for their brethren and while themselves aware that there is just too much sin in each of us to spend too much time casting stones at anyone else.
Flag as Offensive
jkash1776 Wrote:Jun 05, 2013 1:59 AM

it does not promote mormon bigotry and hate. It states what he knows and by attacking him, instead of answering each of his points, you have shown that you are willing to promote bigotry and hatred of Mike because you don’t like what he says.How surprising of an attitude that has indoctrinated children for the last 50 years to act the same way.We ARE concerned about your soul, but luckily for you God knows your heart and enough people now know about you to pray for you. You won’t be grateful, I’m sure, but they will still pray…without thinking that they are any better than you…just luckier to know truth.No one told you that you cannot practice your religion.

Flag as Offensive
jkash1776 Wrote:Jun 05, 2013 2:00 AM

As is too often the case, bigotry turns out to be based upon ignorance and intolerance because of that ignorance.Miss Jenny, poor soul, is an excellent example.
Flag as Offensive
Nam65-66 Wrote:Jun 05, 2013 5:22 AM

Being from the East Coast,the only Mormons I ever met were in the Army.I found them very personoble and very hard workers.And none ever preached their religion or tried to convert others.I make this statement for what it is worth.
Flag as Offensive
The_Nerd_Warrior Wrote:Jun 05, 2013 7:33 AM

Bigotry is a hatred for differences. Dr. Adams has a differing opinion, and was willing to express it. You damn him for it.Thus, you are a bigot.Differing opinions are meant to be expressed. Taking offense is a quick route to conflict and hatred – evaluating, adjusting, and responding is the way to promote peace.Dr. Adams evaluated the demands for apology he received, adjusted his perspective, and responded accordingly.

YOU are promoting hatred by insisting that people take offense to it.

Flag as Offensive
scruziel Wrote:Jun 05, 2013 4:04 PM

“mormon bigotry and hate”. You have adopted the tactics and language of the homosexuals, wherein in truth telling = bigotry, and disagreement = hatred. It won’t wash. Foreswear ad hominem argumentation. Address the substance.
Flag as Offensive
t252 Wrote:Jun 06, 2013 1:49 AM

mike didn’t address “historical facts” I didn’t see one reference.
Flag as Offensive
Rich L. Wrote:Jun 06, 2013 5:55 PM

Just because he did cite a reference doesn’t make his facts false. I can state that WWII was entered into by the US on Dec 7, 1941 and not cite reference. Does that make it false?
JENNY AGAIN
Whew, so much emotion tied to this faith I love.
I guess the main thing I get from an exchange like this is that those who are going to spend precious time quibbling about who is the better follower of Christ and who has the right to call themselves his followers are probably never going to get along.
Well, I will leave it to the reader to decide whose faith is providing the “fruits” that are the obvious signs of those who follow Christ.  The Savior said in the Sermon on the Mount  in Matthew 7:18 that a corrupt tree CANNOT bring forth good fruit.
When I read something like Mike Adams wrote, so filled with hate towards a specific group of people, it smacks to me of “bad fruit”.  But I guess we are all just trying to make our way in this world, and I will pray for him and those who think like he does.
Jeff with his Mother Jenny

Jeff with his Mother Jenny