No More Secrets

Jenny Marie Hatch published the eight victim statements from the Hamblin case in June of 2022. They are embedded below.

FEB 26, 2023

This zip file contains all of the eight victim statements, video and audio files from the Provo Utah Police investigation, as well as other important documents.

This is the complete police file that compelled David Leavitt to hold his press conference.

Continue reading “No More Secrets”

Podcast – Review of Under the Banner of Heaven

I heard about this book almost from the minute it was published back in the day. I live in Boulder Co and the author is a local hero and a highly respected intellectual.


Many friends and family members encouraged me to read Under the Banner of Heaven, but I dismissed as a hateful screed against the church I love and slandered it on my blog as “horrid“. 

I like to think of myself as open minded and so I am not in the habit of judging before reading, but in this case I did.

I watched the first two episodes of the Hulu show this past week and decided it was high time to finally read the book. So I bought the Kindle version and have read intently the past few days and finished up this morning.

I was pleased to read what I consider a fair and well written depiction of our history and although perhaps quibbling over certain notions, I believe this book to be a good addition to the many that have been written about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

My testimony is not damaged in any way by reading this book. 

I liked how the author described his own faith:

“And if I remain in the dark about our purpose here, and the meaning of eternity, I have nevertheless arrived at an understanding of a few more modest truths: Most of us fear death. Most of us yearn to comprehend how we got here, and why—which is to say, most of us ache to know the love of our creator. And we will no doubt feel that ache, most of us, for as long as we happen to be alive.”

I found the chapters on mental illness to be particularly compelling and how the various doctors described in detail the differences between faith and psychosis.

At the end of the day I believe everyone wants to fit into our society. And non-conformity breeds emotional illness, especially in the posterity of those who step out of the mainstream of current accepted truth.

Human history is littered with the human wreckage of those who bravely stand up and share something new and unorthodox, especially if it cuts into the finances of current business endeavors.

Jenny Marie Hatch

Wow. What a hateful, ignorant, paranoid woman…

So I confess to using a comment style in chat rooms and blogs that tends to make people want to kill me…

Or at least want to send me packing as the most divisive troll on the web…

Most of the time when chatting with the well heeled, well coiffed, just a tad too educated and credentialed to be patriotic, smart set of mormondom I am simply given a “gentle” reminder…

Below are our commenting guidelines, just as a gentle reminder:

1. The aim of Blog Segullah is to highlight a variety of women’s perspectives within a framework of shared beliefs and values. Commenters need not be members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but a general respect for religious belief is required.
2. No insults. Critiques should address the argument, not the person.
3. No excessive diversion (or creating a threadjack) from the intended subject of the author.
Comments which violate these standards may be removed at the discretion of the blog editors.

You can decide for yourselves if I was breaking any of those rules with my two comments.

Here is the conversation I had with the author of the piece.

“Jenn Hatch

October 8th, 2013 @ 12:14 pm
I seriously question the “honest desires and good intentions” of some of the leaders of the ordain women group: http://jennyhatch.com/2013/10/06/my-thoughts-on-the-ordination-of-women-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints/

Jenny

Sandra

October 8th, 2013 @ 1:01 pm

Jenn Hatch-

you are welcome to question their actions- that’s a typical reaction- but what I’m asking is to see people first. From those I know and have had true conversations with- I can’t do anything but love them. Same goes with those I know that have spoken against it. I know them and I love them. They have good desires and intentions as well, but might have not seen the people as people. People first. Most everyone I’ve ever met never deliberately seeks to do harm.

I don’t ever want to cast a stone, or pick at the mote in someone else’s eye when there’s a beam most likely lodged in my own.”

I responded to Sandra with a comment that was pulled. I basically told the intellectuals of Segullah that I hated Feminism and loathed Mormon Feminists.

The reason I started my own blog is because I have continually been chased out of chat rooms whenever I begin to expose the various agendas tied to certain systems of thought control in our society. In this instance, Feminism was the issue.

I continue to struggle to find the language that will allow me to comment without getting banned or deleted, but it is obvious that I have not found that “well modulated tone”.

My sisters at Segullah are like those on the Titanic who were straightening deck chairs as the ship sunk into the ocean.

Western Civilization is imploding in front of our eyes, the enemy is at the gate, or at least in the instance of the Ordain Women crowd – at the door of the Conference Center (where Heavenly Father greeted them with Hail) and all these boobs can do is attempt to shut me out of the conversation.

That’s cool. I know my writing style is not for everyone. And if the ladies who lunch and chat up a storm on the web about how we can be better mothers while leaving the littles in the care of a sitter while they give each other Mother of the Year Awards don’t want me crashing their party, hey, it is no skin off my nose.

I have never fit in with the well mannered Mormon Mommy crowd and probably never will.

But I know what sort of a future I want for my daughters and grand daughters.

And I will continue to speak, yell, write, and expose no matter who gets offended.

It’s what I do.

Jenny Hatch

Jeff with his Mother Jenny

Jeff with his Mother Jenny

A comment on Joanna Brooks Blog regarding “Equality is not a feeling”

Here is a little chat I had with a gal in the comment section of Joanna Brooks Blog.  It further clarifies my position.

Jenny Marie Hatch 

“I am wondering who is paying Joanna and Kate to organize and agitate naive young LDS Women… Click HERE.

Sara Anne to Jenny Marie Hatch

I don’t even consider myself a part of the Ordain Women movement, and I still find your thoughts in this post offensive. I also can’t believe that you could possibly fault someone for her “well timed book rollout” and public appearances when the entire right hand side of your blog is filled from top to bottom with self-promoting advertisements for your own financial endeavors and public appearances.

Jenny Marie Hatch  to sara anne

Sara Anne,

Media appearances on the level that Joanna has enjoyed are never an accident. They ALWAYS further someones agenda. The elites reserve a unique level of hate for the happy and contented Home Maker, because she stands at the crossroads of all of their agendas and plans for the collapse of the American Family.

I have no problem with anyone promoting, selling, or writing books on any topic. The common themes for all of my work is “Mother, get your butt back in the Kitchen”, so Joanna and her feminist friends are my ideological foes.

I have a deep understanding of psychological media campaigns designed to breed discontent in certain populations. And I am just cynical enough to believe that the contented mormon homemaker would be high on Madison Avenues list to target.

LDS Men are the kindest, most well behaved, gentle souls on Planet Earth. And the sisters of the church would do well to get on their knees every night to thank God for the blessing of having them in their lives.”

Go read all of the comments on the blog, it will provide quite a cross section of thoughts on this topic.

Jenny Hatch

Jenny

Meridian Magazine: I don’t have a Testimony of The History of The Church

Davis Bitton: To read this whole article click HERE


Davis Bitton, who died in 2007, was a regular columnist on Meridian. He was president of the Mormon History Association, professor of history at the University of Utah, and official Assistant Church Historian in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. This article, somewhat shortened from what we published years ago, is a classic, a statement from a scholar who had looked deeply into Church history and, like so many others, cannot find anything that forces the conclusion “our enemies like to promote.”

I don’t have a testimony of the history of the church. That is why I can be a historian and also a believing Latter-day Saint. I will expand on this idea, but first let me address some related questions.

Do all well-informed historians become anti-Mormons?

The critics would have you believe that they are disinterested pursuers of the truth. There they were, minding their own business, going about their conscientious study of church history and—shock and dismay!—they came across this (whatever this is) that blew them away. As hurtful as it is for them, they can no longer believe in the church and, out of love for you, they now want to help you see the light of day.

Let’s get one thing clear. There is nothing in church history that leads inevitably to the conclusion that the church is false. There is nothing that requires the conclusion that Joseph Smith was a fraud. How can I say this with such confidence? For the simple reason that the Latter-day Saint historians who know the most about our church history have been and are faithful, committed members of the church. More precisely, there are faithful Latter-day Saint historians who know as much about this subject as any anti-Mormon or anyone who writes on the subject from an outside perspective. In fact, with few exceptions, they know much, much more. They have not been blown away. They have not gnashed their teeth and abandoned their faith. To repeat, they have found nothing that forces the extreme conclusion our enemies like to promote.

We need to reject the simpleminded, inaccurate picture that divides people into two classes. On the one hand, according to our enemies, are the sincere seekers of truth, full of goodness and charity. On the other hand, in the critics’ view, stand the ignorant Mormons. Even faithful Mormon scholars must be ignorant. Otherwise they are dishonest, playing their part in the conspiracy to deceive their people. This is the anti-Mormon view of the situation.

Can we see how ridiculous this picture is? It is a travesty on both sides. Many Latter-day Saints may not know their history in depth, but some of them know a good deal. As for Latter-day Saint scholars, as a group they compare favorably with any similar group of historians. It will not do to charge them with being dishonest. I happen to know most of them and have no hesitation in rejecting a smear of their character.

On the other hand, your typical anti-Mormon is no disinterested pursuer of the truth. If you are confronted with a “problem,” some kind of “non-faith-promoting” take on church history, the chances are that your willing helper can lay no claim to having done any significant research in Mormon history. Oblivious to the primary sources, unread in the journal literature, the critic has picked up the nugget from previous anti-Mormon writers and offers it as though it were a fresh discovery. Most of the time it is anything but new—it is a stock item in a litany of anti-Mormon claims that serves their purpose. It is a broken record.

Why does the charge accomplish anything? Because they don’t tell you how stale it is and of course will not let you know where to find the answers that have already been provided. To you the charge is new, or may be new. Falling into the trap, you think you have been deceived by the church—after all, here is something that appears to be seriously damaging to the restored gospel. Like peddlers of snake oil from time immemorial, the critic is willing to take full advantage of the situation.

How many historians who are deeply familiar with the sources on Mormon origins still find it possible to remain in the fold? We might start with names like Richard L. Bushman, James B. Allen, Glen M. Leonard, Richard Lloyd Anderson, Larry C. Porter, Milton V. Backman, Dean C. Jessee, and Ronald W. Walker, all of whom are thoroughly familiar with the issues and sources. Joining their ranks are younger historians like Steven Harper and Mark Ashurst-McGee. I offer just a sampling of faithful, knowledgeable historians.

I do not claim that all who study Mormon history are believing Latter-day Saints. That would be patently absurd. From the beginning, disbelieving historians have written accounts of the events. There have also been historians like Hubert Howe Bancroft who simply put the truth question on the shelf. No one denies that such approaches are possible. But there is also a long tradition of important work by Latter-day Saint scholars. In other words, those who know the most about Mormon history do not simply and inevitably join the ranks of disbelievers and Mormon-haters. It is quite possible, apparently, to know a great deal about Mormon history and still be a practicing, believing Latter-day Saint.

Why do I spend time insisting on this simple, obvious fact? Because our opponents want to leave the opposite impression. And because for many Latter-day Saints it is sufficient to know that faithful historians who are thoroughly familiar with the issues do not accept the interpretations and conclusions of the would-be destroyers of faith. I have not entered the argument over any of the specific issues. My point is simpler than that: Competent historians who have devoted many years of study to the issues have not felt compelled to abandon their faith in the restored gospel.

Are our expectations realistic?

May I reminisce just a little? The year was 1979. Leonard Arrington and I had just published a one-volume history of the church entitled The Mormon Experience: A History of the Latter-day Saints…

During that euphoric time, Leonard and I attended autograph parties, were interviewed, and gave quite a few talks. In an interview for Sunstone, we were asked to describe the relationship between faith and history. Here is Leonard Arrington’s response:

I have never felt any conflict between maintaining my faith and writing historical truth. If one sticks to historical truth that shouldn’t damage his faith in any way. The Lord doesn’t require us to believe anything that’s untrue. My long interest in Mormon history (I’ve been working in it for 33 years) has only served to build my testimony of the gospel and I find the same thing happening to other Latter-day Saint historians as well.

My own answer went like this:

What’s potentially damaging or challenging to faith depends entirely, I think, on one’s expectations, and not necessarily history. Any kind of experience can be shattering to faith if the expectation is such that one is not prepared for the experience. . . . A person can be converted to the Church in a distant part of the globe and have great pictures of Salt Lake City, the temple looming large in the center of the city….

…Only in the Doctrine and Covenants course is some historical background sometimes included, and even there the emphasis is on the spiritual and doctrinal content. Finally, at present (and for the past few years), priesthood and Relief Society classes devote a year of study to one of the presidents of the church. Some historical background is provided, but once again the emphasis is on the doctrinal teachings. The message that comes across to me loud and clear from lesson manuals and missionary lessons is simple. Our testimony is not in the history of the church.

So our eager anti-Mormon comes to us with his version of Mormon history. He has probably picked up his example from other anti-Mormons. He is pretty sure his Latter-day Saint neighbor will not know about it. His eyes are bright with anticipation. “Gotcha! What do you say to that! In view of that, how can you possibly be a Mormon.” If he doesn’t say these things, he implies them.

Here is where the faithful Latter-day Saint should take the wind out of the sails of the critic. Instead of collapsing with a wail of distress, the church member smiles and shrugs his or her shoulders and says things like this: “Hmm. I wonder if that’s true.” “That isn’t part of my religion. I have never heard it taught in any of the classes and have not read it in any of our manuals.” “You know what? That probably interests you a lot more than it does me.” “I haven’t heard what might be said on the other side. But what I do know is that I don’t have a testimony of the history of the church.”

Some of us might deplore the fading of church history from the curriculum. In the meantime, of course, you can still read on your own, individually or in study groups. To my knowledge, no one is forbidding such study.

Admittedly, knowledge of church history is not essential to our eternal salvation. But I do think it is natural and very satisfying to learn as much as we can about it. We study history, any history, as part of our human quest for self-understanding. As I read about the Latter-day Saints and their activities in the past as well as the present, I can be inspired, amused, bewildered, surprised, proud—and sometimes a little ashamed. More often than not, I am amazed at the perseverance, the tenacity, the determination to stay the course through good times and bad. Without even trying, I instinctively identify with the Saints. Imperfect as they were and are, the Latter-day Saints are my people. But my testimony is not in them, and I hope theirs is not in me.

Brigham Young once made a statement about Joseph Smith that our enemies smack their lips over. How they love to misuse it! Here is what Brother Brigham said:

I recollect a conversation I had with a priest who was an old friend of ours, before I was personally acquainted with the Prophet Joseph. I clipped every argument he advanced, until at last he came out and began to rail against “Joe Smith,” saying, “that he was a mean man, a liar, moneydigger, gambler, and a whore-master”; and he charged him with everything bad, that he could find language to utter. I said, hold on, brother Gillmore, here is the doctrine, here is the Bible, the Book of Mormon, and the revelations that have come through Joseph Smith the Prophet. I have never seen him, and do not know his private character. The doctrine he teaches is all I know about the matter, bring anything against that if you can. As to anything else I do not care. If he acts like a devil, he has brought forth a doctrine that will save us, if we will abide it. He may get drunk every day of his life, sleep with his neighbor’s wife every night, run horses and gamble, I do not care anything about that, for I never embrace any man in my faith. But the doctrine he has produced will save you and me, and the whole world; and if you can find fault with that, find it.11

What do you think Brother Brigham meant? Was he giving carte blanche to church members, saying that it didn’t matter how they behaved? Was he here giving his true feelings about Joseph Smith and actually describing him? If President Young’s meaning isn’t obvious, let me paraphrase it: The truth of the gospel and the divinity of Joseph Smith’s calling as prophet of the restoration do not depend on his behavior as a human being and do not require perfection in his life.

Did Brigham really think that Joseph was a moral reprobate? That is the way some brilliant anti-Mormons use this quotation. Ridiculous. Listen to this: “Who can justly say aught against Joseph Smith? I was as well acquainted with him, as any man. I do not believe that his father and mother knew him any better than I did. I do not think that a man lives on the earth that knew him any better than I did; and I am bold to say that, Jesus Christ excepted, no better man ever lived or does live upon this earth. I am his witness.”12 But—and this is an important truth—President Young did not want his testimony to center on Joseph Smith as a person.

Let’s consider a statement by President George Q. Cannon: “Do not, brethren, put your trust in man though he be a Bishop, an Apostle, or a President; if you do, they will fail you at some time or place; they will do wrong or seem to, and your support be gone; but if we lean on God, He never will fail us. When men and women depend on God alone and trust in Him alone, their faith will not be shaken if the highest in the Church should step aside. . . . Perhaps it is His own design that faults and weaknesses should appear in high places in order that His Saints may learn to trust in Him and not in any man or men.”13

I do not have a testimony of church history. In this declaration, I join Nephi, who said: “O Lord, I have trusted in thee, and I will trust in thee forever. I will not put my trust in the arm of flesh; for I know that cursed is he that putteth his trust in the arm of flesh” (2 Nephi 4:34).

Notes

Paper presented at the annual meeting of the Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research (FAIR), Sandy, Utah, 5 August 2004 (see http://www.fair-lds.org). Used by permission. Also published in Meridian Magazine Online (see http://www.ldsmag.com). Used by permission. Copyright 2004 Davis Bitton.

“An Interview with Leonard Arrington and Davis Bitton,” Sunstone, July-August 1979, 41.
“Think Not When You Gather to Zion,” Hymns (1948), no. 21.
See Isaiah Berlin, The Crooked Timber of Humanity: Chapters in the History of Ideas (London: Murray, 1990).
Leopold von Ranke, The History of the Popes, Their Church and State and Especially of Their Conflicts with Protestantism in the Sixteenth and Seventeenth Centuries, trans.

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More on this topic from Jenny HERE